A long and bad Pro Gear Experience

[Steadipilot]

To all Steadicam or other Stabilizer owners/operators,

I'm writing this as a warning to all who may be thinking of doing business with Progear from Denmark. What follows is my painful experience which it seems is not unusual from the emails I've received from operators and posts I've read on the Steadicam Forum.

After seeing a Progear SSV1 vest listed on e-bay in mid August I made the mistake of buying it outside of e-bay, because the start bid was too high. I made a lower offer to Jan Schmidt directly and it was acccepted and then paid for by August 30/05. Their only stipulation being that I would have to wait till the conclusion of the IBC 2005 trade show in Amsterdam in mid September, which was fine with me as I still had my old rig which I needed to sell.

In early Oct. I started asking when my vest was being shipped and I was told it's all set to go, ....yeh tomorrow for sure, .... next time we go to the post office etc. I started having bad feelings about this especially when I read some Steadicam Forum posts about other Pro Gear experiemces and my requests for information were still not being answered. I finally got desparate and bombarded them with 20 emails at a time to get their attention and was finally told it had been shipped the first week in November and was given a tracking #. This number turned out to be invalid with Denmark Post and my repeated request for an explanation were ignored for the rest of November. I sold my old rig in the beginning of November expecting the vest to arrive anytime.

I waited patiently but still got no reply from Jan till it got to the point where I said "forget it, I want my money back" but these requests were also ignored. Finally after threatening them with action through the Denmark consumer protection agancy and so on, I received an email in the first week of December saying the vest chassis only had been shipped ( which means he lied about the original shipping!). It was shipped without vest pads and webbing as Jan wanted to give me a new set and it would be sent separately 3 days after the chassis left. I repeatedly asked for a tracking number for the second shipment over the next 2 weeks and got no reply. The vest chassis arrived the day after Boxing Day and I have been waiting for the rest for the pads to show ever since .

Jan refuses to answer my emails and I have been forced to have Rig Engineering here in Australia try to custom build me a set of pads and the support webbing. It is going to cost me $500 AUD to have this done.

Needless to say I am not happy with my Progear experience. They have also cost me more than their vest is worth in lost income over the past two months for without a vest my rig is a very expensive paperweight. They have shown me a total lack of respect and even threatened me with a slander suit if I said bad things about them but that only applies if what's said is untrue. Not in this case!!.

I highly recommend that unless you're prepared to deal with a lot of frustration, lack of communication and maybe not even getting what you bought, DON'T BUY ANYTHING FROM PROGEAR! http://hbsboard.com/Smileys/smilies_smf/angry.gif

That's just my humble opinion based on my experience. You may have better luck if you still decide to buy from them, I sure hope so!

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Cheers
Norbert von der Heidt

Electric Images
an Australian Digital Video/Film and
Photographic Production Facility
11 Yanchep Close
Kewarra Beach, Queensland
Australia, 4879
tel/fax: +61 7 4057 9848
www.electricimages.net (http://www.electricimages.net/)

[optonica]

I had been thinking of buying some bits from them to move on from my basson as there stuff actually didn't seem to bad for the price. However after reading all the progear problems people have had i'm staying well clear!

Ant

[Jon_collins]

Hi,

Your story sounds about right. Progear are Effin' slow at sending the stuff. He gives you a tracking number or two, but they are madeup ones that dont work, and are nothing like the one you get on the final package, that turns out to be posted in Denmark two days previous!. I have got the vest (complete!!), the arm part of the socket block, post grip, and gimbal (the steel one without the handle!) they all took about 2 months to come. I am not a pro, so it didn't matter a great deal to me. I got the hang of it after doing the same as you over the vest. I only bought the other stuff as the price was so cheap. You cant get a used vest for the price of the Progear one. Its not half bad on quality? The only risk is that one day he may go tits ups and you may never get the stuff?

Jon

[Jason]

It's a sad and sorry story about Pro Gear, in the beginning I heard nothing but praise for them, but their customer service sucks big time, it's sure put me off using eBay for any of their items - and I have considered a few bits before now!!

I don't understand how a company can try and be so "professional" but end up being so shabby! After having seen the gimbal and docking stand Rick received I'm not overly impressed.

I can't say too much as I haven't had much experience of Pro Gear, but they're sure making a mark on the forums!

[jamiebgp]

Firstly, like a few of you guys on this and other forums, I too, have contemplated buying products from Pro Gear . By all accounts I decided wisely in passing on them. I believe the problem with companies like Pro Gear is because they are new, they are constantly chasing demands for stock which is proberbly not stocked in quantities, therefore huge waiting times and false infomation on ETAs. If they were honest with their customers maybe there would be some leniency on our parts. It seems like they are interested in only making that first initial sale and sod the rest. If they truely had there ear to the ground in the steadicam market this and the other forum would be a daily visitation, gauging the needs of not only seasoned ops but also the aspiring ops of tommorrow . I don't think I've ever seen a rep from pro gear on any of the forums. Speaks volumes I think. Unless Pro Gear pick themselves up and offer what is essentially a necessity in business conduct and customer relations, I think that another manufacturer could slowly be biting the dust.

[Jon_collins]

Hi Jamie

I agree with what you say. I think however, the industry is missing a vital supplier sector. You have your low end systems like Basson etc. A couple of thousand pounds gets you going and interested. Once you start to master this rig, you realise you need something better. The next step is a used pro rig, like Jasons Provid, but its £9k. Then you need something better again. What Progear offer (and dont deliver!!) is a lower cost solution and a modular approach. You can buy it, bit at a time. If they offered the entire rig in separate parts, like the sled and the arm? If Howard is listening??? Maybe another manufacurer can step in? Low cost parts, that are interchangable with the industry standard sizes? We all know, that the machined parts of a gimbal for instance dont cost thousands. Each part would be a tenner or so in ten off's, from the CNC machinist. But obviously, if you only sell a few dozen a year, the design and overheads bump the cost up. On the HBS forum, groups are getting togther to get low quantity parts CNC machined.

Jon

[jamiebgp]

Hi Jon,
Absolutley, There is a small market sector that want and need a cheaper solution. Although, what I have tended to find over the years is the old adage " buy cheap, buy twice". I know that there alot of amateur cameramen and operators out there that relish the chance to own their own "Steadicam" and therefore suppliers like basson etc are making a nice little wage, you only have to watch ebay for a little while to see this. But if you are genuinly looking to get into the industry and have that rig earning you a living, you have maybe only a few options (in my humble opinion) 1. Do a course & then hire a rig, or 2. buy a starter rig (flyer,provid,actioncam etc..) practice and get it out there paying for your new rig. There is a huge amount of pressure within the industry to have "The Gear" and hence turning up on a drama or even doco with a low budget rig would can be sneered at, especially as you're charging out at the same as an operator with a better kit. You could argue that "let the operating speak for itself", but I can only speak from experience. I felt the time was right to upgrade, but I still started with a £10.000 kit. Its a huge risk starting off and was a discision that took weeks of negotiation with the misses and the bank manager, but I knew I couldn't turn up on set with a glidecam (gold exclude Job) or Basson. Sorry if I offend anyone. I can't speak for Howard or any other manufacturer but it would seem unrealistic to produce low cost products that fit standard kits as they would be shooting themselves in the foot, surely the answer is just to lower the prices to become more competable. I think Progear was a viable option up until now, doesn't matter how good the product looks on screen if you can't get it. Unfortunately like everything else in this industry, it costs. In the end it all comes down to what you want to use it for and how much your willing to pay. I don't want to come across as being a them and us character because the beauty of this site is that it does cross borders between amateurs an proffesionals, and if I felt like that I wouldn't come here. Its a fical world we live in and the film and tv industry is the ficalist ( if theres such a word).

Happy Flying

J

P.S spell check would be nice:p

[thecrew]

I am operating steadicam for over 8 years now. Owned 2 steadicams, and fly the Gold for the last 2 years.
To be honest, not even one client have seen the difference about my`other` tool. Really, the dont care. Its the result the want. But hey, if you like to pay double for the same, be my guest. Don´t care what you say, you pay for the brand. Simple. There are so many brands out there. And sure, basson is crap, but a lot of guys rebuild them, and getting the same results we do. I know an op with an V20 how is doing amazing stuff with it. And sure, i would like an Pro Arm ( 20k) but dont really need it. The gold arm has been really good for me. As long as there are guys out there willing to pay to much, the will keep doing those overprized stuff. I know, innovation costs, but not that much. I´ll rather get an used 3a ore in my case a new Gold, than the new steadicam stuff. I would need a bank for it. Now i make money, instead of paying intrest.

My 2 cents

[jamiebgp]

Hang on Job, before you get on your high horse. Firstly I am not pointing the finger at the Glidecam gold, as I said the gold excluded. I do like the gold and thought long and hard about buying one, it was only the lack of service in the UK and no Glidecam rep, that I choose to pursue a different make and model. I do not have the " the top equipment" I have a Master Elite with an Ultra arm + Vest, a purchase that took a large investment and thought. Its a natural progression to update and fine tune your kit and thats what I did after 2.5 years with my actioncam. My point is that there is a starting point for professionals i.e already in the industry or intending to be in the industry. I was not saying go out and buy a pro this or a pro that and spend thousands here there and everywhere. The 3a arms have been and will be a quality workhorse as is the vests and even the older rigs EFP's and 3's, theses are the bench mark equipment beginners should be looking at if they are to have a solid start and be taken seriously.

J

[thecrew]

I am not saying that your story was about the Gold. I just point out that most of the guys make brilliant stuff, even with a Basson. The time that steadicam was the only one is over. There are many compagnys and you can mix and match whatever you like. Clients are not gonna ask us what brands you use. The want to see a showreel, and some garanties that you having proffesional stuff what wont brake during a shoot.

Greetz Job

[jamiebgp]

Absolutley, In the last few years things have become more modular, and I am not at all completley pro steadicam. There are a few companies making excellant products which are mix and match, but these products are still expensive compared to some of the old kit that is becoming more readily available now more seasoned ops anre upgrading, hence my purchase. I think that a good base set-up whatever you choose and upgrade modular-wise in the future seems to me the way to go. But I still believe the foundations of your kit need to be solid and sorry but the v-20 and bassons a like are as solid as a paper cup. In regards to clients needs and wants the showreel is the selling point, but I would, on a personal level want to have complete confidence in my kit and having seen and tried some of the lessers brands I would be slightly concerned.

J

[thecrew]

Your right about a lot of points. Just like to ad that the V20 looks like a brick, but for flying its very good. You can hamer a nail with that thing. Ore use it as a ladder, ore stand on it, whatever. I never owned one, cose i think too that the are low level rigs, but you simply cant brake them.:B

[jamiebgp]

Right I'm putting my order in for a v20, I lost my leatherman multi tool at christmas, this sounds like the perfect replacement.......only joking, we should get out more often, too much steadicam talk makes jack a dull boy.
Best regards

J