Ant - a challenge?

[Jason]

I've been thinking this for ages ... years virtually. I've always wanted to make a Dalek ... full size version, and a little research on the web I've found almost 'instructions' to create one.

I would never be able to accomplish this myself, so Ant, if you're up for it too, here's the challenge, try to build a Dalek.

Sounds a bit daft I know ... I just love the design of the Dalek.

Jase

[optonica]

Ok!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jason]

Cool! We could always buy one at £1800 - http://www.thisplanetearth.co.uk/page26a.html but think it might be more fun making one, here's a PDF link for full Dalek instructions, it's extremely well done, I've had a look through it - http://www.rx-7.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/NewFiles/D.B.W.M_v4.pdf

There's a place in Cheshire, Crewe to be more precise that makes full size replica Daleks, wonder if they'd let us come and have a look!

Jase :D

[Jon_collins]

Jason have you read this section

http://www.thisplanetearth.co.uk/page29.html

'How can I persuade my wife/partner to allow me to have a Dalek in the house?'

What is your chosen method?


Jon

[Jason]

I've mentioned it ... she didn't really say much, just rolled her eyes, as usual - she probably thinks it will never happen!!

[Jason]

Ok, I've been thinking about this no end over the past few days, I bought a scaled down version of a Dalek today (sort of a toy one ... radio controlled) and it's awesome fun chasing the cats with it!!

I've had a thought over the colour and design and I don't know about Ant but I love the Daleks from Remembrance of the Daleks, white and gold (see pics below).

Are we planning on making it radio controlled to? Would be cool to have a totally radio controlled Dalek, two controllers, one for movement one for the head, I know you can buy a unit too to change your voice to make it more Dalek like!

Ant do you have any ideas?

I've managed to OK with the mrs about it being here, don't know how, she still thinks it won't happen! Was walking round Blackpool today thinking what it would be like to have a full size Dalek strolling the streets especially if it's radio controlled, could scare the hell outta people!!!! :p

I'm keen as hell to make one, and really want to make the best one possible.

Jase :)

[Jason]

Before I lose the colour scheme, I'll post it on here:

SUGGESTED COLOUR SCHEME

DOME : FORD IVORY (HALFORDS)

NECK SECTION : FORD IVORY (HALFORDS)

SHOULDER SECTION : FORD IVORY (HALFORDS)

SHOULDER BELTS AND SLATS : FORD IVORY (HALFORDS), GOLD SLATS, NO MESH

SKIRT SECTION : FORD IVORY (HALFORDS)

SKIRT HEMISPHERES : HYCOTE NISSAN GOLD (AVAILABLE FROM MOST CAR ACCESSORY SHOPS) HALFORDS NISSAN GOLD HASA DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT SHADE WHICH IS NEARER THE ORIGINAL

Been doing some serious research about this particular Dalek and it's slightly different to the rest ... a slight challenge me thinks.

[Jon_collins]

Hi Jason,

Just pok'in me nose in here....

If you make it radio controlled, you are gona need some big old gear motors and big batteries for the main motion. You could have two driven motors, and 1 or 2 castors. Maybe you need an invalid carriage or electric wheel chair? If you can get one? I was looking for an invalid carriage once to make a motorized camera dolly ( much more worth while project!!!!!) but they appear to hold their value. They are a couple of K to get new, and nothing under £500 completely knackered out. If you have either of these, you have the chassis, wheels, gear motors, batteries etc. but more importantly, you have the control, electronics, speed control and direction, to interface to you radio RX. Maybe do some web research on robot wars. These guys have got all the heavy duty radio motor control sussed. You could also add a pick axe head to the Dalek to really exterminate people!

Don't you just want to sit inside, on the little bench and exterminate people!!

I had a good look at the build plans you posted. Their is a lot to it! - However, If I lived nearer, I guess I would on for lending a hand though :N: I'm a dab hand at making things, and would love to be involved in anamatronics and film SFX.

Jon

P.S. About wandering the streets imagining you were a Dalek..... Best keep that to yourself :-*

[Jason]

Any advice the better, I've always wanted to build a Dalek, so now I've quenched my passion for Steadicam ... it's time to move on and fulfill an ... I wish.

Re the remote stuff, then I've been having a quick think .... yeah I agree an electric wheelchair would be ideal, but getting hold of one, cheapish could be tricky, but nonetheless worth a try. Surely the RC gear for cars would be useful, as long as it can be rigged so both work independently we should be ok .... I know Ant knows quite a bit about RC stuff so hopefully he will throw some stuff into the mix.

I'm more worried about getting the design right .... making it look like a real Dalek, I'm hoping not to stray off the plans at all and build something worth of a TV debut.

What I meant about it roaming the streets is that we'd place the Dalek at the top of the street and with both RC's drive it around the streets, following behind, just for fun! Think I would rapidy lose friends doing that though!!

If we get started soon I might start a new section for Dalek building!

[Jon_collins]

Hi Jase,

Definatly Check out the Robot wars sites. I knew some guys who were trying to make a robot. There will be lots of links to sites that sell surplus gear motors and control. I used to use a company http://www.bullnet.co.uk/shops/test/electric.htm
They sell loads of usefull stuff! Once there was loads of Sinclair C5 motors on the market!


Jon

[Jason]

Thanks just had a look, good site, some promising stuff on there, could be quite expensive making this Dalek! Ah well, not to worry, will be worth the hard work and money.

[optonica]

Right then!

You want it radio controlled! I was once upon a time going to build a robot for robot wars. However things fell through but Luckily I still have the suppliers of parts listed!

http://www.technobots.co.uk/
http://www.robotcombat.com/store.html

Technobots is the best in my humble opinion they have evrything high powered speed controlers, radio gear, motors, gearboxes and batteries.

Colours Hmmmm I'm a bit of a fan of the classic invasion earth so it's grey and blue for those and also a fan of the black and gold ones too! can't find pics at the moment as it's 3:30 in the morning and I've only just got in from work and back up again at 9!

Driving it around the streets eh....... We'll do that near yours then!

Ant

[optonica]

Jason

Your mission is to find a voice simulator for the dalek! A ring modulator or wobulator as the BBC used. However better still something custom made to do just dalek voices would be best!

Ant

[optonica]

Bugger found some!

http://www.lovetone.com/ringstinger.html
http://www.lovetone.com/wobulator.html

But try to find cheaper ones anyway
Ant

[Jason]

What about black and silver?

SUGGESTED COLOUR SCHEME

DOME : GLOSS BLACK

NECK SECTION : SILVER

SHOULDER SECTION : GLOSS BLACK

SHOULDER BELTS AND SLATS : RAW ALUMINIUM

SKIRT SECTION : GLOSS BLACK

SKIRT HEMISPHERES : SILVER

Here's the website with virtually all the colour schemes on http://www.dalekcity.co.uk/ - it's where I got the colours from.

[Jon_collins]

Guys,

Its engineering here! Stop worrying about the colour, and concerntrate on the building!!! Looking at the design and plans, its going to be harder to do the motion control than the main Dalek bit.

Ant, I had a look on Technobots, Didn't see any suitable gear motors (Motor with gear box built onto the end) They have motors up to 1000W, but then you would have to make a drive chain out of cogs and a chain, and some bearing blocks. That is where the problems would start. Chain flying off etc.! Plus when you rate the speed controller remember to consider the motors stall current.

I did a load of work for an entertainment flight sim company once where I desgined a force feedback system for the steering wheel of a racing car sim. As you turned the wheel one way, it was turning back the other way to give force, ie when the racing car was stationary, because a racing cars tyres are so big, you cant turn the wheel at all. As you pull away, it gets lighter, and vibrates etc. If you crash into the barrier, it is ripped out of your hand!!!

Jon

[optonica]

Hi

Technobots used to do a motor with a reduction gearbox on the end they must have stopped selling it since I last looked at the site!

I think we'll build the dalek shell first them worry about moving it after!

Ant

[Jason]

The reason I'm concerned about colours is that you have to spray as you go along, like the sensors (half balls) on the sides.

I know CPC do gearbox motors, I bought one for about £20 for my crane head I was making (which has now been dumped), and they are geared down a hell of a lot, and have a massive amount of torque ... and work from 12 volts.

One thing though, are we planning on making it fully remote, or are we sticking someone inside? It would be cool for it to be totally remote, but realise this ain't a simple job!

Ant; have you looked at the plans from the link above? Do you see any problems with this? I've never attempted anything on this scale.

I'm just too damn excited about it now!!! I want to get cracking with it!

(Sorry, it's just when I get a bee in my bonnet!)

Jason "Exterminate!" Williams

[Jon_collins]

Ant,

When Jason has made his Dalek, Quickly knock yourself up the bottom half, then sit in it with a black plastic bin liner over you - Davros it is? - or make a Tardis and kint a scarf!!! I have actually seen the real Tardis. I went a guided tour of TV centre. When we got to the props dept. their it was, just standing there, looking very sorry for its self. Had a quick look in the door, wont tell you what I saw, it will spoil it for you!


Jon

[optonica]

Hi Jon

When I saw the tardis it had scraps of wood in it and some brooms! It was a new one though not the original one used for the early tv series! I think it was remade for the last one they did (not the one currently filming).

The motors you saw jason would have nowhere near the power to shift a dalek along not at £20 inc gearbox!

Also It would be totaly remote. just have to figure out how to get the gun and sucker/hand thing to move on 2 axis together! However I think I have a plan!

Don't get in too much of a rush about this though! It'll be at least 4months before anything starts getting built as I need to get the house finished before starting this. It gives us designing time though!

Ant

[Jon_collins]

Jason,

These are the type of motors you need

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dllViewItem&category=3258&item=3858857473&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Is a stupidly large lot, but local to you? Either buy the lot, then sell them again on ebay, each, and make enough profit to finance the Dalek, or wait till it closes, and contact him or the winner and try to by 2?

Wheel chair motors are good, as its easy to attach wheels, and you know it chan shift the weight?

Jon

[Jason]

Holy crap batman! Would be pretty powerful with 50 attached ;)

The link on your post doesn't work for whatever reason, will look into that, it's strange.

What I might do is wait for the auction to end, if no one bids, see if he'll sell me two and I'll go collect them .... so possibly get a bargain!

Jase

[Jason]

Right I've emailed the seller and she has 2 spare!! How good's that! She just said make me an offer, so I worked out that 450 divided by 25 (one set of two) works out at £18, so if I offer her £30 ... she should hopefully accept, plus she lives in Manchester so that ain't too bad, plus I'm getting a GPS system for the car so can get to her house exactly!

Anyone think I should offer anything different to this?

Jason

[Jason]

Woohoo! I've managed to get 2 24volt wheelchair motors for £30! I will pick them up next weekend so at least we can have a play, they also said if they were faulty they would exchange them, so no worries there, just how the hell are we gonna power 2 24volt motors?

This is the first start towards the Dalek any way!

Jase

[optonica]

I have 2 unused 12v 48ah lead acid Yuasa batts! I also have a 2-48v variable voltage and amperage bench top lab power supply to test for stall voltages etc!

So Power ain't a problem! ;)

Ant

[Jon_collins]

Hay Ant, the 48ah batteries should run it along quite nicely!!! As for the bench top PSU and the stall currents (not stall voltages!)...... How big is your bench!!!!!???? Most of the bench PSU's can only deliver a few amps. I bet these babys will only pull a few amps running in free air, but when carrying the load, will pull a good few more amps, then if you stall them, if you can, without damaging yourself, will pull about 20A each or more - meltdown, bye bye mr powersupply. Remember to rate the feeder cables to carry the stall current or get some sort of current limited driver speed controller? or you may catch fire! now that would be a good effect!!!! You could also build some sort of stop switch rail into the Daleks bumper?

When the speed controller controls the motor, it will have to do so by a high frequency PWM technique. Lowering the supply voltage will slow the motor, but there will bugger all torque.

Jason, does the motor guy deal with busted electric wheel chairs? Maybe see if they have some wheels that fit, and some control gear?

I used to work with a guy whos previous job was trying to develop an electric concept car. The whole floor of the car was solid with batteries and massive banks of FET's!!!!


Jon

[Jason]

I will email and ask about the wheel chair extras, I'm really not sure, I'm collecting them on Sunday, might even drop them straight off with Ant, he knows a damn sight more about electronics than I do!

Jase

[optonica]

Hi Jon

The bench psu gives up to 25A up to 14v, up to 10A up to 48v! It's about 4U high and 19inch wide and has a massive (and heavy) heatsink on the back (£2.40! ebay a great place)! I don't really have a workbench just a worktop and an outhouse that I frequently take over!

Wasn't thinking about the motor speed control thing! lowering voltages!!!! what was I thinking!!!!!!!!!!

However I work as a projectionist and the motors that run our projectors are 24v too! so I can run the motors off that to test the and the invertor for the projector motor can vary the speed using the PWM technique (the projectors can run from 1fps upto 128fps and reverse) so I'll give them a workout there!

Regards the cable I have a drum of high amperage car instal cable somewhere rated to 40amps i believe at 28v but I'll have to check that when i find it!

Great idea on the bump switch idea thanks for that! I think I'll instal thermal cutouts on the system to covering high load/temp items. As most of the construction is wood I don't really want to build a radio control bonfire!

Ant

[Jason]

I'm really glad you two know what you're talking about .... I have no idea what it all means! Ant; do you want me to drop the motors off on Sunday? If so is there any chance I could grab a copy of the video from the awards.

Ta!

Jase

[Jason]

I've got an email back from the person with the motors (for the record, 1 person bid and won the 50 on eBay!!) and they don't have any other spare parts for wheelchairs so any more ideas?

Jase

[optonica]

there is a wheelchair/scooter place near me i'll ask about wheels there!

Ant

[Jon_collins]

Hi Ant,

On this speed controller thing, I recon on the technobots site, 1502-101 - 50V, 20A H bridge speedo looks like a possibility. One of these for each motor, to do the steering, plus the radio interface, and you have the control. Remember to put the two driven wheels on the centre, with a castor or somthing front and back, then you can turn about the centre running 1 wheel forwards, 1 backwards. Now there is just the rotation of the head, up and down with the head thingie, and then the sink plunger and whisk at the front!!!!

I saw a guy operating a robot the other week, thinking about it, in a shopping archade. The kids were all fixed on the robot. The guy operating it was stood a few 10's of feet away, with a radio link for the voice, but this was the funny bit, he had a really bit coat on, with false arms in the sleeves, then inside the coat he was working the controls! The trouble was, if you didn't know he was working the robot, he just looked like a pedo watching the kids!


Jon

[optonica]

I think we'll need 2 controls for the dalek one for drive and one for all the cooking utensils!

Getting the arm and gun to move on 2axis and pivot on the ball socket in the daleks body is whats really scrambled my mind at the mo! I think I have an idea but I'll have to mock it up and give it a whirl.

Where I work at the trafford centre we have a radio contol bear in a car driving around and the guy who drives that just looks like one of the normal (ish) red coat meet and great bods in his top hat and tails but in his hand is a little joystick box about the size of a 35mm film box, with a wire going up his sleeve to a radio transmitter modding into his waistcoat! I'll try and get a pic next time I see him!

Ant