Help needed please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[optonica]

Hi

Does anybody have access to a set of 15mm support bars or know anybody that does? as I need to know how far apart they should be. As i'll soon be starting on a set of bars to support my radio follow focus system and matt box!

Ant

[Jon_collins]

Hi Ant,

Yeh, I have bars and a matte box on my DV500. I will measure them up for you later.

Jon

[Jon_collins]

Hi Ant,

The bars are on 60mm centers, and are 15mm dia as you said, and 200 long. I have a TLS Matte box and french flag. I think the bars and mounting are chrosziel.

Need any photos?


Jon

[optonica]

Hi Jon

Photos would be great if possible cheers! even just for ideas for bits on them I hadn't thought of!

Ant

[Jon_collins]

Ant,

Here's a few pics of my cam with the matte box..... Makes the cam look good ehh!


Jon

[optonica]

Thanks Jon

Yeah they make the cam look great! Makes the 500 look bloody small though!! I know it is smaller than my beta but holy smoke!

I'm mainly building my matt box to aid in lens shading on my steady, as they are very prone to flares. It will also support my radio focus and also be strong enough to support an autocue unit! As you can probably gather I'm building a bridge plate version a oppossed to camera mount like yours!

Did you put the white tape on the flag or did it come like that? As it's the first time i've seen one with it. And I've seen loads of them and it's actually a good idea as the camera is normaly in the shady areas on sets/shoots and I gave myself a nasty cut on the forehead when I nutted the flag on a panavision (they lock not friction held like yours so it didn't move) If you are wondering how I did that It's an on set trick to look down the lens of the camera (75mm or above) in the shutter open position to check for gate hairs.

Ant

[Jon_collins]

Hi Ant,

The DV500 isn't that small, it must be the camera angle. I think the cam with the flag measures about 750mm end to end? I know the new cams are a little smaller than the old beta SP's. The DV500 is very much the same size as the DSR500. The DSR weighs a little more, and the x19 lens is a little longer.

I only got the matte box for the flag to shade the lens, and it does a very good job. You need it clamped up tight, or it can drop down into shot, with movement. Sometimes you dont notice, as it masks the frame at the top, side to side, and the picture gets smaller!!!!!

I put the white tape on it. It helps to stop people walking into it (it dosn't stop you from wacking it into door frames etc.!!) It was't my idea, I got it from a pro. I was working on a shoot with Dora Bryan (from Summer Wine) in brighton, and she was also taking part in that stupid BBC1 dog school thing, and the beeb came to shoot her too, anyway, he had white tape on his digibeta flag..... I wasn't to long before I did!

I recon you should fix the bars to the cam, then you can keep the matte box on. Your cam will look shite without it!! do you need any dimensions? The flag is steel, ally would be to soft and get bent. The shade is plastic, how do you propose to make that? The filter holders are all machined, one fixed, one rotating. Where the bars join the camera plate, a screw allows you to slide the bars up and down for centering on the lens?

I think the whole bars and shade thing was about £700? I got it from Optex. I think the bars are Chrosziel. Check out their website, their are loads of interesting line drawings of all the bits you are gona need?

What about the autocue hood? How were you going to make that? I have already got some glass, and the LCD, so I am well on the way!! I was going to make shorter, extendable bars as the current ones would go right through the LCD!. I was also going to fit the flag (or make another) to the front? What about the software and a laptop. I have down loaded several demos of suitable software, some dont scroll very smoothly, depending on the machine I use. My laptop, an old 400Mhz job, is a bit slow. Did you see the unit that uses a palm pilot clipped in the front. Very compact! I contacted the company to see if a palm pilot driving a separate LCD could be used, but they said the palm pilots are to slow to do smooth scrolling to an external display.

Jon :H:

[optonica]

Hi

Compared to the stuff I use, Dockable Dvcam Beta sp and Digibetas the dv500 is tiny! I've never actually used one but I imagine it to be around the size of the old GY-X1.

I'll stick with the bridge plate version as making or buying the wedge plate for the front of my cam isn't really an affordable option right now! Plus with having to carry the screen for the autocue and hood and glass it would snap under the load I would suspect, Do you really think your bars wedge plate will support an lcd glass and hood on the end of the bars and not snap the 1 or 2 screws that attach the bracket to the cam (see your own pic attached as I can only see 2 screws holding the bracket to the plate and 1 hight adjusting screw holding the bar support to the bracket there may be others I can't see though)! Plus when I do go handheld I would prefer to go with a clip on hood as I would hit something with it!

Regards your bar/lcd problem why not just make some bars in different lengths for different uses! For example if you rent a Panavision matt box and support kit you get 10 different sets of 19mm bars in several lengths, for different lens lengths etc! as an extendable set of bars just wouldn't be rigid enough for the weights they carry and create vibration in shots. With 15mm bars this would be even harder! plus having extendable bars creates another problem in where does it telescope too! it can't go into itself as one part would have to be smaller than the other then you wouldn't have the use of the bar for other things focus iris motors etc. plus it wouldn't be completly standard either part.

I'll be using a Lee Filters holder as the filter section as these are very modular so can easily be fastened to my bracket to go on the bars

Regards the Autocue Hood and Matt box Hood I'll be getting them vacuum formed! As I have access to my old college equipment still! Keep them sweet!! I may then either use that as a mould for Fibre Glass or Carbon Fibre. I may even bond the vacuum formed part on to the fibre itself and use the vacuum formed part as the finish! I can't use just the formed part as they are not completly opaque as the plastic when formed isn't that thick! The flag will be either steel or my prefferd choice of carbon fibre!

The software I'll be using is the full version of the attached file (don't try to buy it from the info it says as it's the old version!) it uses just plain old ascii files. it will work on really old computers using DOS all the way down to 386 and still stay smooth! the newer comercial version changes scroll speed via mouse left or right clicks, or can use a joystick to vary it! also you can change text size etc. So my crummy old 166 laptop will run it nicely! And all for around $99!!! Bargain

Ant

[Jon_collins]

Hi Ant,

I'm not quite sure how big a GY-X1 is? I have got 2 GY-X2's though!. The DV & DSR's are a little smaller. See pic of the DV500 in action on the shoulder! - yes, I get into some funny jobs!!!! Plus pic of economy version autocue!!!!!

How heavy is your autocue going to be???? I have a 5" LCD - a few hundreds of grams, and a 70/30 autocue glass 2mm thick, 6" x 8", another hundred grams.... I recon the whole thing will weigh less than 1kg? The bars are well strong, you could lift the whole cam by them? The ally sections are 3 to 5mm thick, with steel screws?

Yes, the camera mounting has the tripod wedge plate machined into it, but you could do it this way; remove your wedge from the cam and insert an ally plate between, and replace the screws with longer ones, then mount bars from that?

I will have a look at the autocue software.

Keep me posted on developments?

Jon

[Jon_collins]

Hi Ant,

The software is a little too DOS for me!!!

I was thinking of http://www.propromptersoftware.com/

Jon

[optonica]

Hi Jon

Regards the Autocue I'm going to use a 7" monitor! Try and read a script from your lcd without squinting and being able to read well and ahead enough to look natural. Now move it away how far can you get it away from yourself and still read it? is it still at a distance that you could get usable shots from? or is it too close? also don't forget not all readers have 20:20 vision! So will 5" be an okay size to be functional? as i've not seen one that small in use. If you can make one thats usable and under 1kg you could sell it and make a mint as steadicam autocue units are very thin on the ground!

The software now I like the DOS thing it doesn't crash for a start! but I'll take a peek at the other you suggested

Now the bars... Will they still be rigid enough to hold and not create vibration under movement? I'm still concerned about the bracket snapping though! Do you pick your cam up with them often? :p I've never actually used small bars only ever lens mounted matt boxes, bridge plates or 19mm ones which are machined direct to the camera body. So you will have more experiance with your bracket than me! I like safety though!!!!!

Now your suggestion on the bars on my cam. Had that though too.... but then the back plate hook thingy won't be at the right height for the stud it would be too high up. If it did lock there would be forces twisting the mount plate on my camera or stud. If they don't break it probably won't be a solid lock anyway so the camera will most likely wobble! However I have just had another thought about the plate on my cam so i'll check that first and let you know my idea!

I'll find a pick from a solar shower shoot I did if you want weird naked people pics! ;)

Ant

[Jon_collins]

Hi Ant,

This is a very light weight autocue;

www.propromter.com

Both LCD version and palm pilot versions!!!. The palm pilot has a very small display. I saw this unit on the Optex stand at a recent show. It was very usable. The difference in size between 5" & 7" is only about 1" width ways, so probably wont make a lot of difference? I have connected it up to the lap top, and the script is fine at about 6' or so. There is no bars support system, just clamp it onto the lens! They claim it weighs 3lbs thats about 1.3 kgs so I wasn't far out!! Check out the Go promter, $49 for a mic clip and gooseneck!!

Just looked at the site, the LCD version now uses a 7" display. When I originally saw it, it had a 5" version! Probably 5" LCD's are not made now? If you watch the demo video it uses a 5" LCD

Jon

[optonica]

Hello

After much thought i've decided to take Jons advice and now make two versions of a support system one with a bridge plate like I originaly intended and a camera mounted version like Jon suggested.

However I have hit a snag!

Does anybody know where I can get aluminium rods or tubing in 15mm widths? Preferably on the net and in the UK as my normal supplier RS doesn't carry it!

Many Thanks
Ant

[Jon_collins]

Hi Ant,

My 15mm bars are solid bar, threaded up each end, probably to allow extra lengths to be screwed onto the end. They also have a machined finish. I have checked with our supplier, and 15mm is not a standard size, so it would have to be machined down from something thicker. Unfortunaly, I couldn't do it, as over that length and diameter, the bar would flex during machining. I can support it at the tail stock end, but it would still flex in the middle as you went along, requiring the use of a 'traveling steady', a device that suports the work at the back of the tool as it moves along.... and I dont have one :$

I suggest you use 1/2" bar for now, and upgrade to 15mm if you can? If you make everything with V clamps as it looks like you did for your monitor mount, you would have no problem changing later?

Jon

[alter knacker]

Hi Ant,
i would take carbon pipes like the ones here:
http://www.carbon-vertrieb.com/pdf/14_pdf_preise.pdf

they sent me some examples for testing and its lightweight and very strong, you cant brake it.
greetz knacki

[optonica]

Hi All

Hmmm right then 15mm ally rods are rare as chickens teeth! I'll just have to figure out a way of machining them as I want to go standard or nothing! I have some 15mm arri bridgeplate bars but they are steel and weight a ton to much for camera mount bars anyway!

Jon My monitor doesn't have v clamps for the mount, maybe it just looks that way in the pics. Or maybe my thoughts on what a v clamp is are different from yours! mine is a v wedge groove with a screw or similair pushing the rod into the wedge!

Regards the carbon fibre rods idea. I like that a lot!!!! However for rods or centre columns for that matter you need a sanded finish. This is to make sure that the rod or column is the same width all the way down! The ones on the site look like they are film wrapped ones! These would have a slight ripple in parts. I would need filament wound sanded finish. However I'll pop of an email and ask if they do the one I require.

Jon can I ask you to take a measurement for me. From the centre of the lens hole in the matte box to the centre point between the 2 rod mount holes on your matte box. Where A is indicated on the poor pic attached!

Thanks
Ant

[alter knacker]

Regards the carbon fibre rods idea. I like that a lot!!!! However for rods or centre columns for that matter you need a sanded finish. This is to make sure that the rod or column is the same width all the way down! The ones on the site look like they are film wrapped ones! These would have a slight ripple in parts. I would need filament wound sanded finish. However I'll pop of an email and ask if they do the one I require.

believe me, these are very hard parts.
let them send a pack of parts to you, if you have probs with the language, i´ll do that for you or i send you my examples.
never ever could aluminium do the same job ;-)
greetz knacki

[optonica]

Hi

Thanks for the offer Knacki! I like the idea of carbon fibre it is strong and lightweight. However on the site I couldn't find sanded tube! that doesn't mean they don't sell it though! can you possibly take a quick photograph of your samples and post it here or email it to me at
optonica"at"ntlworld.com

The one I would need looks like the filamentwound pic, the rollwrap is the wrong one!

Thanks
Ant

[alter knacker]

for shure my english was wrong again!

i didnt ment the pipes, but bars or so.....
look here:
http://dict.leo.org/?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed&relink=on&sectHdr=on&spellToler=std&search=stab


its absolutely smooth, its like dark metal, you see every fingerprint on it :)

and of course you can ask for examples, its free.
i dont have a digicam at the moment, but here you can trust me....
greetz knacki

[optonica]

Hi

I've asked them for the filamentwound like I would prefer, and also the stuff you recomended however i'm not sure if they will do it as I'm in the uk and it would cost them to post it!

Ant

[Jon_collins]

Hi Ant,

Heres the dims you need!

Jon

[alter knacker]

Hi

I've asked them for the filamentwound like I would prefer, and also the stuff you recomended however i'm not sure if they will do it as I'm in the uk and it would cost them to post it!

Ant
why not? they just send examples of 10cm of different ...makings....or materials..... sorry :@

they sent me so much stuff, i cannot describe.

if they dont send you anything, i´ll send you my examples....

greetz knacki