My first AR experience

[thecrew]

Well, i have got the system for 2 weeks now, but almost no time to practise. Today i did the first show of idols. It was not the big show yet, that starts next week. Also for all of us, including the director, this was the first try out with the AR. I didnt had much room on stage, and i need to learn much, much more. Its difficult, but i feel i can learn this. I have some examples here if you want to see. I am beaten, its a heavy piece, becose the wireless camera is heavy, so is my Lowerbase with 3 batterys.
Also the sled was almost on full lenght, becose we wanted to go low.
The show was total 3 hours, we had 18 songs, i did 12


At 01.18
http://www.rtl.nl/(vm=/shows/idols4/liveshows/idols4live/)/system/video/html/components/shows/idols4/afleveringen/miMedia/2007/week50/za_aisha.avi_plain.xml
At 00.40
http://www.rtl.nl/(vm=/shows/idols4/liveshows/idols4live/)/system/video/html/components/shows/idols4/afleveringen/miMedia/2007/week50/za_charlene.avi_plain.xml

Start
http://www.rtl.nl/(vm=/shows/idols4/liveshows/idols4live/)/system/video/html/components/shows/idols4/afleveringen/miMedia/2007/week50/za_ferry.avi_plain.xml

01:08 ( i kinda screwed up a bit here )
http://www.rtl.nl/(vm=/shows/idols4/liveshows/idols4live/)/system/video/html/components/shows/idols4/afleveringen/miMedia/2007/week50/za_pauline.avi_plain.xml

Just a few examples. I am not there yet, and learning every minute. 11 Shows to come, so i hope i can operate the AR at show 10 LOL

[Erik Brul]

Job,
I like the first clip and the start clip. These are shots (seems to me) that are much smoother and are useable to start on lowmode and when you are behind the talent at almost highmode and then by leaving the stage again going back to lowmode...

The dollytrack alike shots need a little bit of work, did you bumped the stairs on the last one ? No damage to the cage ?

But overall, COOL:)
Erik

[thecrew]

Eh, i have no idea what happend there. It could be the stairs or perhaps one of the cables. I need to figure out so much stuff. But i am learning every minute. This has nothing to do with steadicam, you need to start over again from scratch.

btw, there are 2 cranes, 3 big camera's and 3 handhelds in front of me there. So when going round the talent, i need to stay low mode to avoid all the cameras

[Erik Brul]

I need to figure out so much stuff. But i am learning every minute. This has nothing to do with steadicam, you need to start over again from scratch.

That's because you are now a combi of walking tripod/mini-jib/stabiliser guy, we have to invente a new word for it:D

[Jason Torbitt]

Hey Job,

Nice work there, looking good. Just out of interest, I see you have a bit of zooming going on there. Did you choose to do it yourself with your Zoe, or did you get your assistant to take care of that, like you used to?

Also, did you manage to mount the wireless camera link on the back of your harness, for ease of use, or was it the one piece Thompson camera you were telling me about?

Looks good, nice to see the A-R in successful use in broadcast land, well done :)

[thecrew]

Hi Jason, how are you

No, i did my own zooming like i always do. I have the Bebob Zoe and the made me an extended cable for AR use. I never let the assistent do the zooming, i rather do that myself.

To bad the D cams have to much delay, so i had to work with the thompson wireless camera, but we did re-locate the antennas and swapped one over to a small one. Worked just fine. Still the long antenna is a bit in the way, so we are gonna work on that. Here some pics of the cage setup.

Cheers

-Edit_ For some reason i cant upload the pics
Error 500 - Internal server error

An internal server error has occured!
Please try again later

[Jason Torbitt]

I've tried to upload pics for Job, but it isn't working for me either...sorry! Jase?

[svenjoukes]

Hi Job,

Nice going! Good to know that at least some producers/directors are willing to spend some money on new equipment to make their shows look better. Although I think they could've spent some more on the set as well... It doesn't seem to offer much opportunities for nice shots: foreground, lightbeams in shot... I get the impression this is a very dull set, just a stage, a curtain and a LED-wall. The crane even had to get the airco tubes in frame to get some impression of movement ;-) Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing you at all, just thinking that a different set could give you more chances to show the potential of the AR. Or am I saying stupid things? Come to think of it, are they saving the nice set for the big shows later on...?

Keep up the good work, man!

Sven

[thecrew]

Yes Sven, the whole set was covered for this coming week. The had to go from 18 to 12 people so the did an extra show without all the bells and whistles. I'll post some more clips next week, you will see the stage is just great.

[svenjoukes]

Looking forward to that!

[thecrew]

Here it is sven, ;)

http://www.rtl.nl/(vm=/shows/idols4/liveshows/ronde1/)/system/video/html/components/shows/idols4/afleveringen/miMedia/2007/week51/za_neil.avi_plain.xml

[thecrew]

Live show 5
http://www.rtl.nl/(vm=/shows/idols4/liveshows/ronde5/)/system/video/html/components/shows/idols4/afleveringen/miMedia/2008/week03/za_nigel.avi_plain.xml

At 1.51

Notice the shaking i currently have. I need to update to a different plate, while running you see the play in that plate. I apperantly have a v1 plate and should go to a v2. Gonna send Howard an email

But nice to see the AR in high speed though

[Erik Brul]

yep, shaky is noticable.. but the end of the shot, leaving stage at speed..., COOL:D (i wanted to mentioned perfect horizon, duhhh)

[Adrenochrome]

Arrgh!!! I never get to see any of these. The streaming bitrate is too high to stream over here. (And I have the fastest connection available here) Just freezes after 2 seconds. I'm sure it looked great Job.


Cheers,

B) Martin "Where's my white cane" Stacey

[thecrew]

To bad you cant see them.
Gotta love this one too, no shaking

http://www.rtl.nl/(vm=/shows/idols4/liveshows/bios/bio3/)/system/video/html/components/shows/idols4/afleveringen/miMedia/2008/week03/za_tiffany.avi_plain.xml
at 0.45

[Pascal]

Hi Job,

Only saw the Jezus Christ Superstar song on TV. Didn't really work out when you ended up shooting the back of his head at extreme close up... Would've been better to see his face at that moment. Emotions and stuff :p
Funny thing is: when you start the shot I'm thinking it's the Techno, but then the camera goes around the performer and there's the aah! moment :D

Really enjoyed the last clip! You can just run flat out without struggling with the roll. Any Behind the scenes footage?

BTW is it me or are the girls a whole lot better than the guys in this series?

[thecrew]

You can see i got close to the hand, then he would turn his head to me, but he forgot. Nerves i think. I NEEDED to get close there, becose otherwise you see the 8 other cameras. So we made a reason to get close, to bad the guy was to much in jesus and forgot all about it. O well, i dont mind the back of his head, i love the flow in there, and it looks awesome in my opinion.

And i can assure you, running and going SO close in lowmode isnt easy. Yes, the cage helps me to keep horizon, but running is REALLY hard. And to increase the speed, the zooming helps a lot.

No backstage footage i am affraid. Gonna ask the puller some day to do that. I am sure it looks silly running with that thing

[Pascal]

"to bad the guy was to much in jesus and forgot all about it. O well"

Lol, that last line just cracked me up: I can just image you saying that :D I understand the reasoning for the framing. Too bad HE (the guy I mean) messed up YOUR shot :mad:

[thecrew]

Yeah, well every week somebody forgets something. And yes, i agree that the girls are much better. And the girls at least remember the camera's, positions and what we agreed to do. Guys dont remember a thing:) .

[Pascal]

How different is it running in DJ with the AR? With a normal rig in DJ IN low-mode you'd have to be carefull not to kick the camera, and you upper body is twisted. Do you have the sled sort of diagonally in front of you, creating more distance between you and the camera? This way you'd also have the monitor in front of you... ? At least this is what I'm doing when dreaming of operating the AR :happy:

[Jason Torbitt]

To bad you cant see them.
Gotta love this one too, no shaking

http://www.rtl.nl/(vm=/shows/idols4/liveshows/bios/bio3/)/system/video/html/components/shows/idols4/afleveringen/miMedia/2008/week03/za_tiffany.avi_plain.xml
at 0.45

...Stunning work :)

[thecrew]

How different is it running in DJ with the AR?

While running i try to keep it at my side. Running in front wont work. The BM vest helps with that, keeps your arm just a little bit longer. Also the gimbal handle of the nexus is a bit longer then normal, that also helps. So even with a wide cage, i dont kick the camera. I switch around from front to side. Front to do the transition and side for walking. Also when i zoomed to a medium shot of tiffany, i turn the sled to get a bit higher, the rest i do with booming the arm. The stage isnt deep enough to have the sled horizontal. Sled horizontal brings the camera away from the body and the turn needs to be wider. Not really handy close to the stairs. But i am getting better every week.

[Erik Brul]

Arrgh!!! I never get to see any of these. The streaming bitrate is too high to stream over here. (And I have the fastest connection available here) Just freezes after 2 seconds. I'm sure it looked great Job.


Cheers,

B) Martin "Where's my white cane" Stacey

Maybe it is a idea to record the stream and then convert to a youtube thingy...
Or maybe Pascal can join you next saturday as a 'assistent' and shoot some cool behind the scenestuff ! ????

Just a idea, Erik:closedeye:

[HJS-MK-V]

Hi Job

Nice shots but the way - shame the guy 'crucified' the song.. :)
("JCSS", one of my favorite films, the operating on it is 2nd to none, I use it as an example of how to frame a widescreen shot / scene)

This wobble could be a number of things. Long lens running - but we will get to the bottom of this.
As you have a Used AR - it may be worth sending it in for a service as we have not seen this unit for over 2 years.

Speak to you off forum.
Cheers
H

[thecrew]

Arrgh!!! I never get to see any of these. The streaming bitrate is too high to stream over here. (And I have the fastest connection available here) Just freezes after 2 seconds. I'm sure it looked great Job.


Cheers,

B) Martin "Where's my white cane" Stacey


You tube

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=-RAr1KleW_c

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=hIPUnyyFqWw

[Adrenochrome]

Awesome stuff Job. Thanks for those links.

Marty

[svenjoukes]

Great work, man! I love the speed you get with the zoom, when you run away from the guy. Especially since you don't notice the zoom.
I also had to look at the Youtube clips, since the RTL streams don't work very well over here either...

Keep it up!

Sven

PS Is that Jo Vermaercke's AR you have? Glad to see it put to good use...

[thecrew]

Hi Job


This wobble could be a number of things. Long lens running - but we will get to the bottom of this.
As you have a Used AR - it may be worth sending it in for a service as we have not seen this unit for over 2 years.

Speak to you off forum.
Cheers
H

And so i did today. Apperantly i was using a 35mm plate instead of the Sony plate that causes the wobble. Howard did a complete overhaul of my system, checked everything. Upgraded to the V2 software and i bought that awesome sonyplate for the AR cage. No more wobble for me. Thx for spending a day again with me Howard, learned a lot again. I think i should do this ones a year.

Great sandwiches too.

Job

[HJS-MK-V]

Hi Job

Great to see you again too..

Glad you got back Ok.
I look forward to seeing you next stuff.

Same time next year??:D

Cheers
H

[Adrenochrome]

My turn next :D

Just let me know when and I'm there. Looking forward to catching up with everyone again.

Cheers,

Marty

[thecrew]

OHHHH, I hate being on tv, but what the heck.
Great advertisement for the AR though, LOL

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=3F4tTAzUHv0

[Jason]

I wish I could understand Dutch, that is a sweet interview ... and a very good demo of the rig and your operating :)

[HJS-MK-V]

HI Guys

This is what happens when Chris and I get bored trying to make a new AR set up DVD....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsvxma0Xq08

Enjoy!
Cheers
H

[thecrew]

Hehehe lol, thats good stuff, cant wait for the result of that.

[Adrenochrome]

Good to see that MK-V t-shirt you're wearing too Job. (Bit of free advertising Howard:) ).
So when are you going to type out the interview in English for us all Job? :D

Cheers,

Marty

[Erik Brul]

Teletest monitor ?

Erik

[thecrew]

Yep, to lazy to use the Transvideo. The teletest is my backup and i use it for the ar, for the moment

[TomJordan]

Come on guys...

Using an AR on Idols is like driving an F1 racecar prototype, to go shopping for groceries at the local Minimarket. Idols is a pathetic show that runs in too many countries with a totally unified early 90's look, for the bored and brain-dead swallowed by their couch at home. I looked at the youtube clips and I haven’t seen a single shot that couldn’t had been done with a normal steadicam. What's the point?

What's next? Weddings?

[Liz]

Come on guys...

Using an AR on Idols is like driving an F1 racecar prototype, to go shopping for groceries at the local Minimarket. Idols is a pathetic show that runs in too many countries with a totally unified early 90's look, for the bored and brain-dead swallowed by their couch at home. I looked at the youtube clips and I haven’t seen a single shot that couldn’t had been done with a normal steadicam. What's the point?

What's next? Weddings?



are you jealous or something?

[thecrew]

Yes he is. The shots on youtube couldnt be done with a normal rig on that speed. But he is just to stupid to understand. I think he would love to drive a f1 car but still drives a vauxhall.

I know what he is trying to do, trowing mud, start a fight and voila, just like the other forum.

Pathetic

[Adrenochrome]

I know what he is trying to do, trowing mud, start a fight and voila, just like the other forum.
Isn't going to happen Job. I'd like to think we are above that here. What I like about this forum is that you ask an honest question about any rig made anywhere in the world without a load of bullshit politics etc. being thrown at it because it wasn't made in America.
This is a fantastic place to be and lets keep it that way by not lowering ourselves to that level.

My 10 cents worth. (We don't have any lower denominations in NZ so it's 2 cents is rounded up :D )

Cheers,

Marty

[Jason]

Come on guys...

Using an AR on Idols is like driving an F1 racecar prototype, to go shopping for groceries at the local Minimarket. Idols is a pathetic show that runs in too many countries with a totally unified early 90's look, for the bored and brain-dead swallowed by their couch at home. I looked at the youtube clips and I haven’t seen a single shot that couldn’t had been done with a normal steadicam. What's the point?

What's next? Weddings?


Please stop being offensive to the members here - if I see any more posts such as this one I will permanently ban you from the site, including your IP, email address and username.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

Jason
Forum Administrator

[edit]

This user is using a proxy attempting to hide their IP - however, I have more than one IP that I will ban in this instance, I will not tolerate this type of action by any forum member.

[Erik Brul]

But we are a part of a so called ELITE team as Martijn mentioned it during the show :D ..

Funny

[thecrew]

Hehehe, i told him that ops are using a forum to exchange tips and trick, but he made it a elite team. Well, i think we all are :B

Make my paycheck elite too please lol

[HJS-MK-V]

Hi Job / Guys

I don't know if my opinion means anything?

But - I think what Job is doing with the MK-V AR is great and I am very proud of what he is doing.
Using a system like this on live TV is no easy thing.
You think "steadicam" on live TV is hard, this is a whole other ball game.

So basically well done Job, I look forward to seeing more of your live AR shots.
As Directors understand what we can offer then they will start to add more to these already complex moves - :D

All the best
Howard

PS - Well done Jason - we do not want this to end up like the other forum do we...

[thecrew]

Hi Job / Guys

I don't know if my opinion means anything?


Oh, more than you think.




I want to add that i couldnt do this without the exellent support MK-V has given me so far. Thanks a lot Howard and team.

And yes, its really hard to do liveshows. You have a small timeframe given by the director, and you have to deliver in that timeframe and get the hell out of the other camera's. Next, the stage isnt build for you, so you have to manage in the space there is. The stage is very wide, but not very deep. So transistions arnt always possible. I do a lot of transitions in the show, only in front of the stage. On stage its mostly lowmode, becose we dont want to shoot all the equipment in front of the stage. I am happy with a serie like idols, it gives me the flyingtime i need to learn the AR. Its like mentioned before, a learning curve. It isnt easy, but it is a lot of fun. I think we are gonna see more in the future, when directors found out the do's and dont's. Next month i have a demo to 8 directors overhere to show them how we could use this fantastic tool.
Cant wait for that

And yeah, thanks to the moderator to keep this forum a place for tips and tricks, no politics here

[mcguire]

Hey Job, its great to see your enthusiasm for the MK-V AR.
As its been said - operating the AR is no easy task both mentally and more importantly, physically.

To get your flying time on a live show is a great way to get to grips with the kit as being in a pressured environment is the ultimate challenge, it pushes you to adapt quickly to ever changing situations - I applaud you for taking it into the live TV arena.

The MK-V AR is an unknown piece of equipment to production at the moment - you've joined a club that has self motivated operators. They can perceive a new way to shoot some very complex shots and they WILL and ARE bringing the MK-V AR to the marketplace.

Good luck to you and all the other people who can think outside the box!.

Best Chris McGuire

[thecrew]

Thx a lot chris, and thx for visiting this forum. I hope we will have a few more AR operators inhere in the near future.

[Adrenochrome]

I hope we will have a few more AR operators inhere in the near future.
Oh all right, Finally changed my system owned. And proud of it too.:D

Can't wait to get it up and running.

Cheers,

Marty

[Erik Brul]

Oh all right, Finally changed my system owned. And proud of it too.:D

Can't wait to get it up and running.

Cheers,

Marty

So you did win the lottery Marty or did you charge all those producers overthere a lot with the V25 ?:p

[thecrew]

I think its called " Taking a change" :-)
Concrats man, i know you will love it

[svenjoukes]

Next month i have a demo to 8 directors overhere to show them how we could use this fantastic tool.

Job,

Do you think there would be room for me to attend this little gathering? Maybe I shouldn't be asking this, but I would love to be there... Let me know...
And BTW, congratulations on doing what you're doing. I've done live TV with the rig. I know what it takes. TV is looked down upon by film-guys, they just don't have a clue... Respect, man.


Cheers!

Sven

[Adrenochrome]

So you did win the lottery Marty or did you charge all those producers overthere a lot with the V25 ?:p

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the congrats everyone.

Erik I just took the bull by the horns and put my balls and my house on the line. It was time to take the market here on and it's paying dividends already. Got 2 music videos lined up already and am in negotiation for a feature and I haven't even put the thing together yet. I've got enquiries coming from everywhere. Best decision I ever made I think.
Just need to get the thing together and practice, practice, practice.

By the way, Job, Erik, Sven, I will be in Amsterdam around the 18th-20th March if anyone wants to meet up for a beer. Would be great to finally meet everyone face to face.

Cheers,

Marty

[thecrew]

I'll be in Amsterdam the 19th WITH the ar. Gonna do a small concert, give me a call and we could meet up there.

[Adrenochrome]

That's sounds great Job. Would be awesome to see you in action with it.
And I'm sure you'll have worked up a thirst by the end of the show ;)

Will give you a call closer to the time.

Cheers,

Marty

[Erik Brul]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the congrats everyone.

Erik I just took the bull by the horns and put my balls and my house on the line. It was time to take the market here on and it's paying dividends already. Got 2 music videos lined up already and am in negotiation for a feature and I haven't even put the thing together yet. I've got enquiries coming from everywhere. Best decision I ever made I think.


Hey Marty,
Congrats indeed and a brave but a wise decision and cool that it all seems to working out for you !

Best, Erik

[mcguire]

Hey Job, just managed to check out your AR shot for Idols on the 'Truveo' site.
Looked fantastic - great operating of the rig!!

Good work fella!

Best Chris.

[thecrew]

Hey Maestro,

Thx a lot. its just an example of what we are doing there. i hope i can find the time to post some more.
Also a concert in march. All shot on HD and AR, 18 songs, lets see if i can make it, lol.

You still busy with that Morgan Freeman Movie? How did that turn out with the AR.

Job

[thecrew]

Did a music video with the AR. Storm on beach, no problem for the AR.
Also in house all on AR to save time. We only had one day. I did the dop and lighting too. So that was a full day.
Shot on XD Cam, ( nearly fits in there ) with pro35 and primes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gMNwT6kmS8
( Some shots are off level, that was on request )